1 John 2:18-21

[ryan]

18) - Little children, it is a last hour, and as you heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have risen up, from which you know that it is a last hour.
19) - They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they left so that it might be revealed that they all are not of us.
20) - And you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
21) - I did not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because every lie is not of the truth.

[ryan]

We just started this section and have not really discussed it yet, but here is somthing from my notes:

1) - Verse 20 can be a little tricky, and many misteach it. If you belong to Christ you HAVE anointing. John is telling these particular people that THEY know all things because they had already been taught the truth through his teaching - see I John 2:27 at the end - (which he calls the Anointing). He can say that about them because they had already been taught. He is telling them that they don't need to listen to people with special knowledge and special messages because they have already been taught the truth and therefore already know all things that they need to know. He's not saying that these people know ALL things, meaning "Everything there is to know", but more along the lines of "What you already do know is enough for now and you don't have to have "Special" knowledge".

[T]

But, but, my LDS neighbors say this "special knowledge" is what I don't have and I'm just a baby christian! I need what they all have, so I can enter into the Aarionic Priesthood!

[ryan]

^_^. Right. The problem is that you are not using the right formula. You need to eat pizza at EXACTLY 7:34 p.m. Then you need to fall asleep in a chicken coop while standing on your head. And you MUST be wearing a Chuck-E-Cheese birthday hat as well. Let me know what happens after you do all these things. I think that your life might just change dude!! ^_^

[T]

hahahahaha! What a mental picture that was! Actually it sounds kinda fun......will I became a priest then...will I Ryan...will I?!

[T]

Okay, seriously now, is this "teaching" that is spoken of here in the text from John or God? The text doesn't sound like John is telling them they have been taught by him. Also, does this verse stand for us today, or just to whom John was writing to? And what's with the last statement here, "Every lie is not of the truth?" Really? Because I always thought only SOME lies were not of the truth. I stand corrected! EVERY lie, is not of the truth. Very profound.

[ryan]

1) - In the text, John tells them that they have the anointing from THE HOLY ONE. This would tell me that it's not John's teaching, but The Lord's.

2) - It depends on who the "Us" is right? For me and you (as people who are actually saved and not just "Christians") I would think that the principle of what John is saying stands for us today. He is probably dealing with a specific group of people that he had been with personally and saw the fruit of their salvation. He is telling them that since they are saved, they have already heard and received the true teaching, so therefore they should not be swayed by those coming in with "Special knowledge". If someone comes in saying that they have a revelation from God, and this revelation doesn't fit with what they already know is true, then reject it. So I think this pricinple also applies to all of those who are saved today, yet in these verses John is writing to a specific group of people.

3) - Yeah, kind of a weird thing to say huh? OF COURSE every lie is not from out of truth. Which lies ARE from out of the truth? An oxymoron right? I'm not sure why John said this, unless maybe he was just restating what they all already know? Just for emPHAsis? Not sure homie.

[T]

Alright, so that I remain on track here, John is writing to Christians because they are Christians, (like a confirmation and encouragement). He also is defending the faith by highlighting those who are "bothering" the Christians with this "special knowledge" and "extra biblical teachings." In which he tells the Christians they don't "need" anyone to teach them because they have the anointing, the Holy Spirit, who has given them the knowledge they need to have. If this is the case, why have we teachers today? And if we are to have teachers, should they be just reading the scriptures only, trusting that the Holy Spirit will do the work of teaching each individual on an individual basis? Of course in our time, because of our retarded English language, the "reading" of scripture should include a teacher capable of reading and teaching from the original language. But after that, no other spin or one's own interpretation of the scripture being read should be rendered, right?

[T]

If we are to have teachers, they ought to be like John here right? Confirming the truth, encouraging and defending the faith, right?

[Deleted]

First: Thanks Ryan for inviting me to participate!

"OF COURSE every lie is not from out of truth. Which lies ARE from out of the truth? An oxymoron right?"

This is another case where the Greek brings clarity. In the original language it is literally: "Any lie is not from out of THE TRUTH"

Notice the definite article. In Greek this describes the specific truth system. Second, that this system is -ek theou; or literally: "from out of God". So two things here are that it is a system of truth and second, that it is The system of truth that comes - from out of God as a source. Anything that God speaks, does, teaches, commands, exemplifies etc comes from out of this truth system. It is The Truth as a whole system and not just a single truth that John is pointing out. This verse is telling the reader that within that system there is not any lie. Put another way, In God's system or realm of truth, there is not even a single lie. How do you know if something is coming from out of God as a source? First it can not contain even a single lie.

[Deleted]

"And you have an anointing from the Holy One and know all things"

"He is telling them that since they are saved, they have already heard and received the true teaching, so therefore they should not be swayed by those coming in with "Special knowledge". If someone comes in saying that they have a revelation from God, and this revelation doesn't fit with what they already know is true, then reject it"

I think this is a true statement. But I think there is something even more special being said here. Specifically, the word for "anointing" is literally "charisma". You may have heard of the word Charis for "grace". When you add "ma" on the end it means "An Expression of Grace". Vs 27 uses the same word and tells us "The Grace Expression" comes from HIM. Notice the definite article. It is a specific expression and second, that it comes from Jesus. Next John tells us that this expression "abides in them". The word "abide" is a present tense verbs showing that it is continuously in them. That is that there is not a time when they do not possess this expression of grace that came from Jesus and is in them. Next he says literally that this "from Him expression" is teaching continuously you. The you is a second person plural meaning all of the you described as the us and 2nd person plural you's, or born again, Spirit possessing believers. So what is the expression that Jesus gave to them, that continually resides in them, and is continuously teaching them? Could it be that John is referring to the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit.

[T]

Thanks Mark. I enjoyed reading your posts here.

[Deleted]

"the "reading" of scripture should include a teacher capable of reading and teaching from the original language. But after that, no other spin or one's own interpretation of the scripture being read should be rendered, right?"


Thanks T. I think you are right here. In Galatians chapters 1 and 2 we see the importance of adhering to the doctrine(s) of the early church. Paul says

"Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be ba cursed! "

And then that when he returned from the regions of Syria and Cilicia that he went to Jerusalem and submitted the gospel that He got from Christ to them. This was the practice in those times to identify what was of the Lord and what was not as far as preaching went. The Apostles in Jerusalem were the ones who had been hand chosen by Jesus to be "with" Jesus, for the specific purpose of being the ones authorized and "sent with a commission" - which is what the word Apostle means. Ephesians chapter 4 states that Christ himself gave gifts to the church and that those gifts include "Pastors and Teachers". So, yes, we are to have teachers in the church today. But what is there role supposed to be?

Because Paul, Matthew, Peter, etc are not alive today to teach us, the teacher in the church is to teach or to use a better word "explain" to us what those Apostles, who were authorized, meant when they wrote the scriptures back then. To quote someone else " the teacher today is to explain to us what the Apostle meant as if that Apostle was here himself". A teacher today does not have the authority to change what they taught, nor to create new teaching. The authority of the Scriptures is sealed and they cannot be added to nor taken away from. There is no freedom to conjure up, imagine, or suppose a new meaning into what was meant back then. This is what is meant in 2Peter 1:20"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, "In order for someone to explain what they meant back then to us today, he must not only be Spirit filled but also have had the Spirit work those words of ink on paper out so that they are "opened up" or "revealed" to him. This is where the original language can help. It is a tool that has a "limiting" effect on a teachers imagination. I might be able to say that "in truth there is no lie" and make a long and motivating sermon that makes perfect logical sense, but the original language limits me to exactly what the text is saying and not saying. The Greek points out that it is THE TRUTH as a system. In other words, there are things that are true but have nothing to do with and are not from out of THE TRUTH system of God. Take the statement: If I have a million dollars I am rich. This is a "true" statement that has no existence in, and does not come from out of God's The Truth system. Compare it to 2Corinthians 8:9 "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich." Only in God's The Truth System does this statement find it's reality.

[T]

I had forgotten about that passage in Ephesians, thank you. As I read your last post, I was reminded of the history of the Catholic Church, who had teachers who read the Word deceitfully for their own gain of riches and power. The saints had no copy of the bible and many were illiterate, falling prey to these monsters. I find the same today, though most people have their own bible, they remain illiterate to the original language and depend on their teachers to be accurately teaching the Word. Sadly, in many cases they are not. Then what happens is a few may go back and check the scriptures for accuracy, but they check them (unknowingly) through the "lens" of what they were taught. They then conclude that the spin that was taught was accurate; when it really wasn't, it just seemed right because of the way they have been taught year after year. How do we keep from falling prey to this? How do we strip away what has been taught in the past, so as to read the scriptures afresh? The only way I know how, is to ask the Holy Spirit to be my teacher and to protect me from false teachings. I trust that He has been doing that, leaving me with my real and only teacher being Him and not any man. So why, did Jesus give us the gift of teachers? Is it that we might have men gifted by God to equip (mend) and edify the saints? Maybe I ought to pray that God would send such a man to Vernal, UT. Those of you who have found such a man to teach and pastor you; never stop praying for this man’s protection from the world and the temptation to wonder from rightly dividing the Word.

[Deleted]

I don’t know how Ryan will answer this, but if you will permit me, I’ll explain it best at I can. First some history: I had been approached by a co-worker years before learning Greek or being exposed to my current Pastor to meet him and learn Greek. My response was a polite and somewhat arrogant, no-thank you. I did not want to put MY rapid growth goals on hold to learn Greek. I had been propped up and pumped up by leadership and others in my church that the Lord was using me. I also trusted their teaching that I had gotten for 10 years. All my new friends and I had the same teaching in common and the support of a large church encouraging me unto “great” things was powerful to my “well intentioned” ego. After taking two years of what was a Bible College outreach program to prepare one for ministry, I started teaching more and more at our church. In preparing to “teach” around 500 families what the Scriptures are saying, I did what I was taught; I opened a handful of commentaries. More and more I was unable to “pick” between differing “opinions” and “authoritative” statements in those commentaries. I tried to pick what lined up with what I was taught but that methodology didn’t sit well with me and it started to rub more and more as time went on. By this time I was already examining my motives, education, and techniques for “teaching” the people something so serious to me as God’s Word. During this time period, I needed something to help me with the book of Ezekiel. I went into a local bible bookstore to shop when the man working there asked if he could help me find something. As the conversation went on, he started taking about Hebrew and learning Hebrew and that he had just started a class. He invited me and before the month ended, I was taking Hebrew and Greek. At that very first night of seeing the text on the board and being asked what does it say and comparing that to english translations and my mind racing with all the commentary differences, I knew that so much of what I had been exposed to had nothing to do with what the text actually says. The next thing that happened that same night was an overwhelming realization that this road of learning Greek and Hebrew and the one I was on were not compatible. God was stoping me dead in my tracks with a course changing ultimatum. I knew was being presented with a choice to put my “future” on hold and whether it took 5, 10 years or a lifetime, that I had to follow the texts as they are written or follow my church’s teachings which I had come to trust and feel safe about. My whole house of cards was under attack. I also knew for the first time in my walk what it meant to have the Holy Spirit lead me. I knew this was the purity of the Holy Spirit putting me face-to-face with His Word and presenting me with a choice. You might be asking how this answers your questions?

Well, this is where the answer starts. Whether it is completely the Lord or it is in co-operation with our free-will choice is probably a discussion for another time, but suffice it to say that I had been brought to a point of having to make a decision. I had been prepared by that “rub” I talked about earlier, and a seriousness that was in my spirit about the things of God and an opening up of the Scriptures before my very eyes and mind. All that was left was a choice. Would I follow the Lord and thereby forsake everything else, or would I reject this call and stay on course with my goals. I think that this is the answer. God brings people to a point of having to chose and I have seen this over and over for more than a decade. People will say they understand what the text says and that it corrects their wrong ideas, yet they say they just cant forsake their church or teachings or denominational platform. Some claim friendships, some claim ministry, but in the end it really is as serious as saying I will knowingly stick with false teaching as a choice. The Prophets said that God’s judgement had come upon the Jewish people because of their choices and the form of His judgement was to withhold His word from them. They would go “to and fro” and not be permitted to find his word. This is what happens when people want religion but reject what God has offered. This is why Jesus told the Pharisees that they made converts twice as much sons of Hell. First they sold them a false doctrine of works, but second they prevented them from going to and receiving the true gospel. I can’t think of a more accurate description of what is going on in most churches today. Programs, agendas, politics, money, fame, entertainment etc. and then claim to have the true gospel denomination. To openly examine another view is tantamount to excommunication. There is nothing worse that to have Leadership get wind that you are not “on board” with their denominational views and begin to tell people to “avoid you”. Youve now become a marked man. What is your crime? You have presented the text , which is what it is, and said this is what is says, which it does. The judgement is - yes, that is what it says, but that is not what we believe here at this church. The sad thing, for them, is that I was like a berean through the whole process. I was determined not to just except everything I heard. Everything I learned in Greek class, I checked with the very books that these other teachers claim as authority when they want to make themselves look smart. In 1John 2:19 it says they went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. That “so that” is a purpose clause in Greek and means “in order that”. It shows that there is a God ordained separation in the church to distinguish what is of God and what is not. So why are there so many people and so many churches following false doctrine? Because it is God’s ordained division to protect those who are in The Church of God from those who are in a church of man.

If you can pick up on the bits and pieces of what I have shared, it’s because God prepared me to make a choice, I became willing to follow, and He led me to a good teacher. He caused me to equip myself with a tool that I can use to examine what others say is from God. Greek is just a tool. All of this requires salvation, dependence upon the Lord, revelation from the Holy Spirit, and day after day to year after year of being exposed to the text by means of the Holy Spirit. Greek will examine print on paper and limit human translation but thats it. It is the Spirit that takes that fact and applies it to spiritual things and gives meaning. This is between every single believer and the Lord and He is faithful, so that part is indisputable. He will prepare teachers and students. As to why so many over the years have followed, been tricked by etc. false teaching? That I don’t think we can know for sure. Perhaps it’s as simple as what we call the church and He calls the church are very different.

I really appreciate you heartfelt comments about praying for our Pastor. I agree and yet I am more burdened with what about the coming generation. None of us know how the Lord will use us, but it is certain that the body of Christ will need men who are open and brave enough to follow the Holy Spirit even if it means forsaking all others into the work of becoming equipped for the sake of others.

God bless you and Praise Him for what He has already helped you to see. It is a burden to be sure, but is glorious at the same time.