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Post by Justin on Apr 26, 2012 6:15:34 GMT -7
OK gents, I need help understanding John 15:5, I hear quoted a lot "without Christ we can not do anything..." but what does that mean?
Gramatically is says we can not do one thing/work but who is He speaking to? This is prior to the indwelling of the Spirit and of course there are concerns about pulling doctrine from the Gospels.
If we can not do one thing without Him, then everything we do is from Him and therefore good? That can't be right. So perhaps it's talking about the sustaining of Jesus holding all things together so no one can even be alive apart from Him - but that would make those quoting this as a "God must do it" verse mistaken.
Any thoughts?
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Post by T on May 3, 2012 20:54:25 GMT -7
Act 17:28 NKJV - "for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.'
Also:
Mat 5:45 NKJV - "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
These verses remind me that God takes care of everyone and that really, no one could survive apart from the presence of God. So maybe Jesus was eluding to this fact in John. The other option is, Jesus was speaking to His disciples, informing them of what was to come. Some great things, some exciting things, and some frightening things, all of which what be impossible to have apart from Him, even unbearable without Jesus.
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Post by Justin on May 4, 2012 21:29:23 GMT -7
That's a good point. He just spent the last 3 years showing them they could't do anything without Him. Now he could be telling them that what's coming is no different.
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Post by T on May 5, 2012 16:04:03 GMT -7
Okay Justin and Ryan and whoever else is on this forum, I want to raise a question similar to Justin's. I heard a story on the radio of two people in a small plane who began to have some trouble with the plane. The pilot found a fairly open field and managed to get the plane down, but the plane crashed between two trees, ripping off the wings, but sparing the two occupants. On the radio, the plane occupants said, "It had to of been God that saved us."
If God saved them, why not make sure the plane landed safely, like at the airport? Why would God allow these people to have the poop scared out of them and only save them by the hair on their chinny-chin-chins?
You guys following me? Like in the bible the miracles were unmistakable: feeding thousands with 5 loaves and two fish; healing the blind; turning water into wine; you know, unmistakable miracles. Now, it seems like all people proclaim as miracles are: WOW, that was CLOSE, I almost died there! I'm asking, is it always God? "Oh look, the perfect parking spot just opened up for me! Thank you God!" I'm thinking, really?
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ryan
NEANISKOS
Posts: 106
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Post by ryan on May 8, 2012 5:30:05 GMT -7
Interesting question. I would say that it's "All God" in the sense that He is in control of all things. Nothing can happen that He doesn't allow. And all things happen for His purpose, even the things that seem "Bad" to us. Like in Job how God allowed satan to touch Job's life but it was all for a purpose that Job couldn't necessarily see at the time. We have all had trials where at times we are questioning The Lord and asking Him "Why are you doing this to me?". Sometimes it's not until years later that we get the answer to that and sometimes we NEVER get an answer to that. The thing that bothers me is how so many people are always praising God for the things that go THEIR way. "Praise The Lord that I got that job I applied for". "Thank God that Grandma's cancer is in remission" "Thank you Lord for giving me a good day without any hangups". I don't see anything wrong with thanking The Lord for these things but we should be thanking Him for EVERYTHING right? "Praise The Lord that I lost my job today because He knows all things". "Thank God that Grandma lost her battle with cancer, He knows what He's doing". I know that it's easier to praise God in the "Good" things but it almost makes Him out to be a magic genie or something when we only do that.
On another note, I know that this is the view of many non-believers as well. "I could never believe in a God who would allow such and such". Back when we had that earthquake where the two women died in Paso Robles I was talking with an Atheist guy. I said something like "Thank God that me and the children I was watching that day were okay after the earthquake". He said, "Oh don't even talk to me about God, what about those two women in Paso who DIED in the earthquake. Are you telling me that God wasn't with them?" These are questions from people who don't know or understand our Lord. As humans I think that our view of what is "Good" is quite skewed.
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ryan
NEANISKOS
Posts: 106
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Post by ryan on May 8, 2012 5:35:09 GMT -7
And we may never know why The Lord allows some people to die in plane crashes while others barely escape. I guess we just need to trust that it's all for His purposes and He knows what He's doing. You mentioned the miracles that Jesus did. If you read through them you see that Jesus usually had a spiritual purpose for them. It doesn't seem like He was just healing people's flesh just so they would be happy in the flesh. There was much more to it than that. The Lord is concerned with our hearts, our spiritual well-being, not with making us "Happy".
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