Does the devil really care?

[ryan]

I have heard a few people say that the devil bothers people and makes them doubt their salvation. I was thinking about this the other day when I heard yet another person say it.

I am wondering, does the devil really care if a person who is saved "Doubts" their salvation? What benefit would he really get from this? I understand that his main focus is to keep us away from growth, but I'm not seeing how this qualifies as that.

Since the devil knows that once a person is saved then that person is sealed by The Holy Spirit, and that he (satan) can no longer have the persons soul, then what difference would it make if he could make them doubt it?

Wouldn't it make more sense that if a person was doubting their salvation, that it's possibly because it's actually The Lord trying to convict them that they really aren't saved?

[T]

I will indeed do some study on this, but first I would like to say, the devil knows he is defeated, yet he continues his work of lies and destruction. I believe his pride has blinded him from being able to believe he is defeated. Yes, he may KNOW he is defeated, but I don't think he BELIEVES it. Also, it seems placing doubt, is his favorite (not to mention his FIRST) trick. From the beginning, he questioned Eve, "Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?" Her response shows she didn't know exactly what God had commanded because she ADDED that they were instructed to not even touch the fruit, which God never said anything about touching the fruit, just eating it was a no, no. Satan then takes advantage of Eve’s weakness in not knowing God's specific command and begins to throw in more doubt...Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die." Okay he straight up lies and then proceeds to sow more doubt, by making God out to be a father who is withholding a great blessing such as ‘being like God’..."For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

So that was in the garden, but does that have anything to do with us now? Hmm, not sure about that. Satan still is a deceiver and deception can bring about doubt. As for a person doubting their salvation, I don't think an unsaved person would care what the Lord thinks and/or whether they are saved or not. Does such questioning go on in an unsaved person's mind? If so why? I believe that a non-matured Christian will put himself under the law unwittingly not fully understanding the full extent of the law and its justice that must be served. At some point they begin to realize the justice of the law and may begin to doubt their salvation, not fully understanding that Christ fulfilled the law and its requirements (including its punishments). They fail to realize, since they have Christ, they HAVE fulfilled the law and all of its requirements. As they mature and grow, they come to know that the law makes nothing perfect, neither in justification, nor in sanctification. But this is of a maturing believer, if satan can keep a person in a non-matured state, perhaps this person may be haunted by doubt for quite sometime. And who among us can understand the works of God in someone from the beginning to the end. Is not this salvation a work of God from the beginning? Maybe it is God's plan and timing to allow this person to struggle with doubt longer than you or I? Can we really make a judgment call on this?

[ryan]

No I don't think that we can make a judgment call on this. It was kinda just a thought I had. I don't think it's a topic that can really be proven or disproven Biblically. I realize that satan is still a deceiver and that he still deceives. I was just wondering if he would deceive in this way. In the example of the garden he actually had a chance to get them to give in to the deceit (which they did), in the example of salvation, satan can try and get us to be deceived all he wants but the end result is that we will ALWAYS be saved regardless of what he does. It would be completely fruitless in that sense. As to whether or not he completely realizes this fact or not, well I guess we can only guess about that.

And as far as an unsaved person caring whether they are saved or not. I think you said it all with your statement at the end of this when you said, "Is not this salvation a work of God from the beginning?". The only reason that an unsaved person would ever even see their need for a Savior is because The Lord is convicting them of this. I see what you are saying though. I don't think that a person who is unsaved is going to walk around wanting to be saved until/if their hearts respond to The Lord's prompting.

I guess my question would be, "What good would it do satan to make a believer doubt their salvation, if he already knows that regardless of how much they doubt it, they are still going to be saved?" I guess I'm wondering if doubting our salvation is something that would actually effect our growth in The Lord (which is the only thing that satan can do anyway after we are saved). Would this benefit him in any way? I don't know.....it's just a thought I had. Maybe I'm not making any sense. ^_^

[ryan]

"As for a person doubting their salvation, I don't think an unsaved person would care what the Lord thinks and/or whether they are saved or not. Does such questioning go on in an unsaved person's mind?"

I guess this question that you asked is kinda what I'm asking, yet in the opposite direction. Would a SAVED person actually entertain the idea that they might not be saved and let that cause them to stumble in their walk? Or is it that this is actually The Lord convicting a person that they really are not saved to begin with.

[Justin]

I don't care whether or not the devil cares. I think we cause enough of our own doubt and problems and give Satan way to much credit for our own causes.

I honestly believe we think we're more important than we are - Satan has "bigger fish to fry" and our own flesh does enough on it's own that he doesn't have to spend much time on us.

Satan's "job" is real easy for him these days - much of the doubt comes from our own insecurities and imagination.

I imagine he might want to cause doubt in a believer for some reason, he then needs permission from the Lord right? Perhaps the Lord has some faith building in store so that doubt and then confirmation is a growth process - but that's obviously all speculation.

I do know that those who cancel meeting on Wednesdays are probably not saved...

[ryan]

Wow Justin. Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?

[Justin]

LOL... when don't I?

I often have times of doubt - and they seem fruitless. I have to remember the confirmations the Lord has given me in the past and the way He saved me.

I just think we (myself included) tend to blame Satan for our own issues - not wanting to accept the fact that the garbage is coming from our own flesh.

[ryan]

Yes. I agree. I was simply wondering if satan would even bother with such a thing, or if it's most likely The Lord. As I said in my original post, I often hear people say this. Then I think of the whole salvation presentation that Paul Washer gives about how the sinners prayer has sent more people to Hell than any other thing on Earth because pastors will tell people that it's just the devil bothering them if they are doubting their own salvation, when in reality it's probably The Lord convicting them of their need of a Savior. Do I care if satan cares or not? Not really. Can it be proven biblically whether or not it's The Lord or satan who is making people doubt their salvation? Probably not. It was just a thought I had and thought it might be a neat discussion. ^_^

[T]

It has been a very neat discussion Ryan, thank you! Justin, I'm not sure about everyone else, but if I may assume for a moment here, I'm not so sure that most christians think they are special enough to have the devil pay them any special attention. That is, to bring about fear, doubt, lies, or whatever. Rather, most bible believing christians may have in mind Paul's warning to be watchful and to stand firm, because the devil is looking for someone he can devour. My assumption here, since it is a letter for believers, Paul is warning us of our enemy and his hatred for us. Now, it has been said that nothing can happen to us unless God allows it, so why would Paul give this warning? Why not say, " Okay, the devil, he is looking for someone to devour, but don't worry, if you happen to be the one he picks, know that after he devours you, it only happened cause God allowed it. Okay, moving on."

[Justin]

The point is not that we see ourselves as important but that we don't see ourselves as the filth that we are. Instead we blame Satan for our own issues. Of course he is to blame for much but we must first analyze ourselves.
If Satan can in fact devour a believer then doubting salvation is a cakewalk.