Women teaching women doctrine

[shannon]

I've been reading with interest the subject matters and subsequent comments from all of you.
I haven't seen this subject addressed. Scripture is clear about women not teaching or exercising authority over a man. What about women teaching other women? To what extent is this permissible? Can I, as a woman, share with another woman believer, the Word?

Also, is it appropriate for women to teach children doctrine at home?


Titus 2:3-5 Older women likewise are to exhibit behavior fitting for those who are holy, not slandering, not slaves to excessive drinking, but teaching what is good. In this way they will train younger women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be self-controlled, pure, fulfilling their duties at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the message of God may not be discredited.


1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

[Justin]

Hi Shannon,
Great question. The answer lies in the grammar of the 1 Timothy verse. Does it say "I don't allow a woman to teach AND "I don't allow a woman to exorcise authority over a man" or is it saying "I don't allow a woman to teach a man, or exercise authority over a man." The original language will have to be checked.

[shannon]

Thank you Justin! You have pointed out the significance of the word "or", which answers my question in part.

[Justin]

Unfortunatly I got slammed at work and was unable to finish my post. My intention is to finish my earlier thought and then post the breakdown from the Greek. Be patient and I may yet be of some help, or perhaps one of our more smarterer members would like to comment in the mean time...

[shannon]

Thank you Justin

[Justin]

To start, one must go further back into 1 Timothy to gain a perspective on what is being addressed. I find it interesting that Paul is using statements like "I desire that women should..." and "I don't permit a women to teach." One could argue that not allowing a woman to tech is a preference of Paul that he is recommending to Timothy. That being said, it is there for a reason and if we read it as teaching then then we must, to the best of our ability, determine what it says.

The word order is important in Greek insomuch as it determines emphasis so it's important to note that this sentence begins differently in the two major manuscripts but the meaning and emphasis does not change. It begins with either TEACH WOMEN NOT or WOMEN TEACH NOT with the particle OUK negating the verb TEACH (DIDOSKEIN) followed by "I do not allow" (EPITREPO). Basically it's clear from Greek that Paul is saying he doesn't allow a woman to teach, period. This is is a statement not relating to men or women but in general not being a teacher.

To determine further what is being said we must look at the word for teach (DIDOSKEIN) and what is meant by teaching. To grossly summarize; it means to teach in either a formal or informal setting where there is one person acting as an instructor. Whether there be many instructors or just one. Clearly Paul says that women are not to be in the position of teacher regardless of whether they are teaching men or women.

This brings us to your Titus reference, the word for teach here is KALODIDASKOLOUS from a similar family of words to DIDOSKEIN but not based on or rooted in DIDOSKEIN. Again, to keep things short, a gross summary of KALODIDASKOLOUS is: a good moral teacher and implies a teaching by example as much, if not more, than in word.

To summarize; Paul does not allow a woman to be the teacher in any aspect, they are not to teach. That is not the same as instructing other women by example or even word on leading a good, moral life. He goes on further to discuss women not usurping the position of the man.

I certainly hope that answers the question, it has certainly opened my eyes in light of today's Beth Moores and etc.

[shannon]

Your summary statement was very helpful on this subject, Justin.

In most church settings we note that many of the Sunday school teachers are women. According to what you have brought out from the Word, this is wrong to do even then, is it not? What if there aren't enough men to fill these shoes?
Another example...what, if anything, is appropriate for women/mothers to teach children, whether in the church setting, or at home?
What is our role if the husband/father in the home is not born anew of His Spirit? Does it then become acceptable to teach our children from the Word?
I'm glad you mention the Beth Moore's out there. There are so many very popular ones today....Kay Arthur, Joyce Meyer's as well. I notice even many men are drawn to and recommend these women studies. As a matter of fact, I believe Joyce Meyer's husband listens to and is taught by Joyce. In this case example, is it appropriate for a man to be taught by a woman since her husband approves of this?

[Justin]

In order to address these questions we must now look into what submission means as well as usurping the authority of the man.

Paul continues in our Timothy verse as if to address your questions - the woman is not to usurp the authority of a man. This would seem to address the "possible lack of male teachers". I would say that the Lord is sovereign and will provide teachers when needed and a woman should not step into that role.

Biblically, as it was taught to me, submission means to be in an orderly relationship. The word for submission [HUPOTASO] is a military term that pictures people standing in lines and ranks like the military does today.
Basically Jesus is the front "point man" in line and we are to line up with him. The husband lines up behind Christ to follow Him and lead his family, then the wife lines up behind the husband (submission).

The bible teaches that if the husband is not following the Lord, the wife IS NOT to step up into the husbands position (place in line) nor fill his role but rather keep her position in line behind Christ. This answers any lingering questions of what a woman should do in the even of a missing, unsaved or non compliant husband or male leadership.

It boils down to this: the Lord does not need us and does not need our teaching. If there is an apparent lack then it's by the providence of the Lord. Our responsibility is to simply grow in Christ and His word, He will provide teachers, which coincidentally, are one of the gifts to the church - not teaching.

I submit that there are too many teachers today and too many different teachings.

[shannon]

Thank you so much!
This was very timely for me since I have been studying in Ephesians 5 order in relationships.
You answered my immediate questions as well as the hypothetical "what if..." ones that seem to always crop up in conversation with many.

[Justin]

For some great teaching on Ephesians and others, you can go to www.materingthebible.com. There are many free studies available including the presently ongoing Ephesians study.

[shannon]

Thank you Justin The LORD has blessed me tremendously through the teacher Bill Klein of Mastering the Bible. He knows the needs of His sheep and provides accordingly, all in His timing.
After approx. 14 years of near starvation for teaching of the Word, the LORD led me to Mastering the Bible site. This was three? years ago I believe. I have, and highly recommend, the entire series of older sermons of Pastor Bill. These are as priceless 'gold' to me!
I use these alongside of the new current and updated ones from the website.
Apparently the LORD has allowed for you to receive this blessing from Him as well Again, thank you!

[Justin]

Wow, I had no idea. That's fantastic!
But... To truly understand what's being said, we must again dive into the grammar. Are you saying that Bill, has older sermons that you recomend? Or are you saying that Bill, being old, has some sermons and you recomend them? From there we must also determine what the word old means and does it modify the Past, Ancient, Imperative of Bill.
Old is derived from the word ASDIRTEO and modifies sermons and not Bill, but that does imply the giver of the sermon to be equally as old.

[ryan]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Seriously cracking up over here dude!! ^_^

[kelli]

Astios

[shannon]

I am at a loss for words...... I must admit it doesn't happen very often!